AR-News: (US) Just sayk NO to Nevermore Farms
Snugglezzz at aol.com
Snugglezzz at aol.com
Sat Jun 5 20:12:32 EDT 2004
(From another list):
Well, it seems like one of the NAIA's finest and most ardent supporters has
gotten into the puppy mill rescue business. Or is it rescue at all. Pull up a
chair, what follows is more than you'll ever want to know.
Many have crossed paths with the woman behind Nevermore Farms. She posts
under the name, quite appropriately named "Dogcrazy." What's is surprising is
the sudden interest in "helping" with rescue especially since most of my
encounters with Dogcrazy have been to take her to task for her frequent attacks on
those who rescue.
Dogcrazy, who signs her posts Diane, has often described those who rescue as
merely being interested in profiteering of the sale of "shelter mutts." Her
words have not been any kinder to the shelter dogs who rely on the rescue
community often times as the only means of hope of surviving their shelter stay.
But apparently Dogcrazy has a different view on helping the "poor" puppy
miller with finding homes for dogs that she describes as "puppies genetically
defective" or "retired breeders" or other breeding stock surplus often purchased
at one of the many despicable dog auctions that she attends.
Let there be no doubt that those who would participate in Nevermore Farms new
rescue program will be providing puppy millers for a healthy price in
exchange for either a poorly bred puppy or a dog who has spent a lifetime being
abused or neglected simply to serve the whims of the greedy breeding industry.
Knowing there's a "second hand" outlet for rejects the miller has little
reason to worry about breeding for quality. Well, I guess millers have little
reason anyway but having an outlet for "seconds" and worn out breeders only
allows puppy millers to take one more bite of the apple.
Where does she post her puppy mill rejects - on Petfinders, where else.
Check out her site - it's certainly past being interesting.
http://www.petfinder.org/shelters/MO255.html
Taz and Razz, two baby Miniature Pinschers for $300 a piece.
Willie, a sweet little six year old Maltese who has spent his life as a
breeder. According to his bio "His $400 adoption fee reflects what it took to
rescue him from the auction, vet work needed to get him ready for adoption (like
shots, deworm, neuter, teeth etc)." Interesting, a puppy mill dog needing
dental work.
Those familiar with the dogs Nevermore "rescues" describes the dogs as
"appearing to be on death's door". Yet, does the participation and financial return
to the breeders encourage an ending to this practice of milling dogs or does
it merely encourage and make profitable future abuse of a puppy millers
breeding stock.
Obviously, at the prices being charged a rescue's funds would go much further
in helping the thousands of dogs living on death row in our nations shelters.
Nevermore Farms is located in the heart of puppy mill country in Glenwood,
MO. There are reports that Nevermore Farms used to be located in North Carolina
where it was called Dogcrazy Kennels. I have no information as to when or
why a decision was made to move to Missouri.
According to her website she is a retired breeder although she does advertise
on the site a litter of Pyr's. But the rescue thing seems questionable.
www.dogcrazykennels.com
http://www.dogcrazykennels.com/FAQ.html
As an avid supporter of the NAIA Dogcrazy is quite vocal in her opposition of
the Animal Rights movement. In her world there is no such thing as a "puppy
mill" but instead she prefers to call what she does as "working with
commercial breeders" to move their surplus inventory in adoptive homes.
What can one expect when adopting from one of the commercial breeders that
Dogcrazy partner's with - we'll let Dogcrazy explain that in her own words.
Problems you may see (in puppy mill rescue dogs) include
retained testicles..we usually neuter before they leave
cold virus.maybe be labled, sinusitis, bronchitis, kennel cough, cold crud,
upper respitory, most just require time to get over, sometimes meds may go with
the new pet, the rule of thumb as long as they are eating they are ok.
heart murmurs they can be mild to severe..graded on a scale 1-6, 6 is worst.
MANY puppies get over or better as they get a little older, some puppies get
progressively worse. Monitoring semi weekly would be the only way to know which
way the murmur is going. Most murmurs live a normal pet life, some may
require daily meds for maintainance. My mom's dog has had a grade 4 heart murmur
most her life..she is now 12 yrs old. She has been on daily meds most her life
too. Because of the unknown, murmurs scare some folks, if you are one..don't
adopt a murmur dog
ticks and fleas we have been very fortuneate. We treat the first sign of a
flea with advantage or frontline. We RARELY have fleas, so odds are your new
friend won't either! However, we do live on a 40 acres fenced farm , MANY of
our rescues are allowed free roam of the farm, this means TICKS. This is a part
of life. We do pull them off as they are found, but we don't get them all and
, the dogs get them daily, so please, your new friend may have ticks, don't
panic, pull them off and go on with life. It isn't that big a deal..ugly maybe,
but don't worry.
eye problems sometimes we see dogs with some type eye problem..usually
blindness, usually GREAT DANES especially any of the white ones we may have have a
chance for somet type eye issue. They usually live a decent and full life. Our
vet is not an eye specialist and this is an issue that could be missed upon
exam He does the best he can, if you adopt a dog especially ANY dane from us be
aware it may have vision problems
deafness every thing that applies about blindness applies to deafness. Danes
that we get OFTEN have this issue especially the blue eyed white ones.
Sometimes they are good at hiding it and we don't get it diagnosed a great website
is www.deafdogs.org or com they have a ton of info about deaf dogs and how
great a pet they can make.
oddball stuff we do all breed rescue, this means we willingly help almost
every breed. Many breeds have quirks and issues more specific to their breed.
This may be stuff we or our vet are only vaguely aware of. We do the best we
can in telling what the problems are. research your breed, if there is
something specific ask and we can check to see if your potential friend has this
probelm. Your best resource is the internet for information..please use it BEFORE
adopting.
worms and other parasites every dog here has been wormed at least once and
chances are several times before leaving. We have a standard worming protocol,
however, somnetimes testing may find worms that our or our vets wormer didn't
get. We do have quite a few dogs pass thru here, so many times dogs get wormed
and then have the same worm 2 days later as they picked it up again in our
grass. There are also protozoan type parasites like coccidia, giardia etc..
these require special wormers. Many times we have wormed for it, but it is easier
to clear those up when you just have a couple pets. So, my advice, assume
your pet will still have parasites or worms, despite treatments here. Then, bring
a stool sample to your vet and find out the exact meds you need to clear your
new friend totally. Do NOT be surprised if your friend does have worms or
parasites this does NOT mean they weren't treated here. It is simply diffilcult
to keep them clear here.
Sounds like a puppy mill to me......
Dogcrazy attempts to explain the role of puppy mills when she writes
"It is very hard for folks who live outside our area to truly understand what
goes on here. Many folks do not agree with getting dogs out of the
kennels..that is your choice and personal belief. My opinion is I made a difference to
that one dog..he didn't have to live his life in a breeding kennel."
Yes, rescuing a dog from a puppy mill is a compassionate act but not when the
puppy miller is allowed to profit from the sale. There is no reason that
making the process of moving dogs from the mills apart of the profit process is
ever going to aid in breaking the financial support that encourages these
practices in the first place.
Dogcrazy further writes "Breeders aren't going to give young dogs for free.
Many times they won't give older dogs away for free either, if they think they
can breed it one more time."
Sounds like a miller philosophy to me, squeeze every last litter out of a dog
then try and squeeze a few more dollars through the auction. Talk about
self-indulgence. Maybe that does explain the three bull dogs offered for rescue
at the price of $1,200 a piece. If she nuts or just plain dog crazy?
>From her Petfinder's listing we find - "Larry, Mo and Curly are 3 purebred
English bulldog males about 10-16 weeks old. They have been released to me from
a breeding kennel. They would have been kept as breeding dogs in a cage for
the rest of their lives . Anyways, they now have a chance at a pet home. All 3
boys seem to be good natured, playful, very cute bundles of fun. They will
leave here vet checked, vaxed and dewormed and neutered by our vet. Their fee
includes that and the amount I paid to get them out of the kennel. $1200. each."
Dogcrazy explains the her rescue process -
"If you want to get a dog out, you need negotiate pricing and generally
speaking pay competitive auction fees. Then, you need to provide medical care,
housing, feeding, spay neuters etc.. that all costs money. Everything I do, I do
with my own personal money. I get no donations, I don't work with a big
national rescue. So, fees may seem high because they must cover the auction fees, the
medical care, the feed etc... Every dog's fee varies depending on how we
acquired it."
Yes, the fees are not only high but they are absurd. What rescue is going to
recoup a $1,200 fee by passing on that cost to someone interested in adopting
those dogs? Of course, the big national rescues are not going to partner up
with this business scheme.
It's her pricing scheme that draws concern. She explains with the following
blurb -
general prices
"Here is a general pricelist for wholesale puppies. This is what the brokers
pay..pet stores pay more. Breeding aged animals would cost more. Auction
prices are a cr*pshoot, as it all depends on if the animal is breedable, and how
many bidders there that day that need that type animal(like age, sex and breed)"
"So for folks worrying or wondering about our fee schedule this gives you an
idea what I have to negotiate against. This is just a sample listing, I am
sure there are many other brokers and avenues and those prices would vary. Not
sure why the one girl thought Danes sell cheap, they sure don't thru the
brokers. Now sometimes large breed dogs don't sell as well thru auctions as the
smaller breed dogs do. Many folks just trade the large breed dogs privately."
AFFENPINSHER 265
AFGHAN HOUND 280
AIREDALE TERRIER NICE 190
AKITA 1-PINTO 2/3 WHITE 235
AKITA 2-OTHER 185
ALASKAN MALAMUTE 1-BLK/WHT GRAY/WHT 120
ALASKAN MALAMUTE 2-OTHER 120
AMERICAN BULLDOG 315
AMERICAN ESKIMO #5 & UNDER 105
AMERICAN ESKIMO OVER #5 60
AUSTRALIAN CATTLE DOG BLUE HEELER 120
AUSTRALIAN SHEPARD 1-MERL AKC, ASCA, NSDR 125
AUSTRALIAN SHEPARD BLK/WHT, RED/WHT TRI AKC & ASCA & NSDR 75
AUSTRALIAN TERRIER 190
BASENJI 220
BASSET HOUND M-120 F-130
BEAGLE 5# & UNDER 80
BEAGLE #5.1 TO #7.5 50
BEARDED COLLIE MARKET PRICE OR M-245 F-255
BEDLINGTON TERRIER MARKET PRICE OR M-310 F-320
BELGIAN TERVUREN & MALINOIS M-270 F-280
BERNESE MOUNTAIN DOG MARKET PRICE OR M-600 F-700
BICHON FRISE NICE #4.5 & UNDER M-210 F-255
BLOODHOUND 180
BORDER COLLIE BLK/WHT, RED/WHT/ TRI M-105 F-115
BORDER COLLIE OTHER COLORS OR SHORT COAT M-75 F-80
BORZOI MARKET PRICE OR M-140 F-150
BOSTON TERRIER GOOD MARKINGS M-235 F-260
BOUVIER MARKET PRICE OR M-215 F-225
BOXER FLASHY M-310 F-300
BOXER NON FLASHY 280
BOXER WHITE M-235 F-240
BRITTANY M-100 F-105
BRUSSELS GRIFFON M-455 F-465
BULL TERRIER WHITE M-765 F-775
BULL TERRIER COLORED/OTHER M-690 F-700
BULL MASTIFF M-390 F-400
CANE CORSO BLUE M-315 F-325
CAIRN TERRIER M-145 F-150
CAVALIER KING CHARLES M-405 F-460
CHESAPEAKE BAY RETRIEVER M-120 F-125
CHIHUAHUA 1.7#-2.2# EUP TYPY M-205 F-235
CHIHUAHUA 2.3#-2.5# TYPY M-155 F-185
CHIHUAHUA 2.6#-2.7# TYPY M-100 F-115
CHINESE CRESTED HAIRLESS M-280 F-285
CHINESE CRESTED POWDER PUFF M-165 F-175
CHOW CHOW CREAM M-225 F-230
CHOW CHOW RED CINNAMON M-205 F-215
CHOW CHOW BLACK/BLUE M-155 F-160
CLUMBER SPANIEL MARKET PRICE OR M-410 F-420
COCK-A-POO M-160 F-175
COCKER SPANIEL BROWN & BLUE ROAN, CHOCOLATE PARTI M-135 F-155
COCKER SPANIEL OTHER M-110 F-125
COCKER SPANIEL BLACK M-85 F-95
COLLIE BLUE MERLE/FULL COLLAR M-105 F-110
COLLIE OTHERS/FULL COLLAR M-80 F-85
COONHOUND AKC/BLACK&TAN M-70 F-80
DACHSHUND DAPPLE/L.HAIR/PIEBALD #4&UNDER M-140 F-150
DACHSHUND #2-4 & UNDER M-120 F-130
DACHSHUND OVER #4 STANDARD M-90 F-100
DALMATIAN NO BLUE EYES M-115 F-120
DALMATIAN NO BLUE EYES HEAVY PATCHES M-50 F-60
DANDIE DINMONT TERRIER MARKET PRICE OR M-375 F-425
DOBERMAN PINCHER GOOD TAIL CROP M-235 F-225
DOGUE DE BORDEAUX MARKET PRICE OR M-725 F-735
ENGLISH BULLDOG OFA CERT +75 1000
ENGLISH MASTIFF #15 MIN M-370 F-380
ENGLISH SETTER/POINTER M-80 F-85
ENGLISH SPRINGER SPANIEL M-135 F-140
ENGLISH TOY SPANIEL MARKET PRICE OR M-355 F-365
FRENCH BULLDOG OTHERS M-745 F-755
FRENCH BULLDOG LIGHT COLORS M-820 F-830
GERMAN SHEPARD BLACK&TAN OR BLACK&SILVER OR WHITE M-125 F-120
GERMAN SHEPARD BLACK OR SABLE M-100 F-95
GERMAN SHORTHAIR M-75 F-80
GIANT SCHNAUZER M-230 F-240
GOLDEN RETRIEVER M-135 F-145
GORDON SETTERS M-170 F-180
GREAT DANE TRUE HARLEQUIN NO MERLE MARK M-425 F-435
GREAT DANE BLUE SOLID M-350 F-360
GREAT DANE FAWN OR BOSTON M-295 F-300
GREAT DANE BLACK/BRINDLE/MERLE/OTHERS M-200 F-210
GREAT PYRENEES M-125 F-130
HAVANESE M-430 F-440
IRISH SETTER M-85 F-90
IRISH TERRIER M-195 F-215
IRISH WOLFHOUND M-220 F-225
ITALIAN GREYHOUND OVER #5.5 70% M-210 F-230
JACK RUSSELL (AKC & UKC) OVER #5 70% M-130 F-135
JAPANESE CHIN M-285 F-295
KEESHOND M-160 F-170
KERRY BLUE TERRIER MARKET PRICE OR M-400 F-410
KOMONDOR MARKET PRICE OR M-200 F-215
LABRADOR RETRIEVER CHOCOLATE M-90 F-95
LABRADOR RETRIEVER YELLOW M-90 F-95
LABRADOR RETRIEVER BLACK M-75 F-80
LAKELAND TERRIER M-390 F-400
LHASA APSO 5-6# & UNDER M-190 F-200
MALTESE 1.7# - 2.2# TYPY M-375 F-425
MALTESE 2.3# - 2.5# TYPY M-355 F-405
MALTESE 2.6-2.7# TYPY M-315 F-365
MALTESE 2.8-3# TYPY M-285 F-335
MALTESE 3.1-3.3# TYPY M-245 F-285
MANCHESTER TERRIER APPROX 2.5#-4# M-165 F-175
MINIATURE PINSCHER BLACK/TAN, CHOC/TAN, NICE 3.7 & UNDER M-200 F-235
MINIATURE PINSCHER RED 3.7# & UNDER M-200 F-235
MINIATURE PINSCHER 3.8# & OVER M-160 F-175
MINIATURE SCHNAUZER WHITE 4.5# & UNDER M-215 F-245
MINIATURE SCHNAUZER OTHERS 4.5# & UNDER M-190 F-225
NEAPOLITAN MASTIFF MARKET PRICE OR M-500 F-525
NEWFOUNDLAND LANDSEER M-600 F-620
NEWFOUNDLAND OTHER COLORS M-500 F-520
NORFOLK TERRIER M-375 F-385
NORWEGIAN ELKHOUND M-160 F-170
NORWICH TERRIER M-375 F-385
OLD ENGLISH SHEEPDOG ALL WHITE HEAD/BLACK POINTS M-330 F-335
OLD ENGLISH SHEEPDOG OTHER GOOD WEIGHT M-310 F-325
ORI PEI M-380 F-390
PAPILLON (PHALENE EARS DOWN 70%) 3# & UNDER M-310 F-335
PEKE-A-POO TRUE M-165 F-170
PEKINGESE MUST BE PURE WHITE M-220 F-235
PEKINGESE GOOD HAIR COAT TYPY M-205 F-220
POMERANIAN 1.7-2.2# VERY TYPY M-235 F-245
POMERANIAN 2.3-2.5# VERY TYPY M-205 F-230
POMERANIAN 2.6-2.8# VERY TYPY M-165 F-190
POODLE 1.7-2.2# VERY TYPY M-235 F-260
POODLE 2.3-2.5# VERY TYPY M-200 F-225
POODLE 2.6-2.8# VERY TYPY M-180 F-205
POODLE 2.9-3# VERY TYPY M-160 F-175
PUG BLACK/FAWN M-310 F-335
RAT TERRIER 4# & UNDER M-85 F-90
RHODESIAN RIDGEBACK MUST HAVE RIDGES M-245 F-255
ROTTWEILER (9 WEEKS MIN) 14# MIN & 2 HIGH TITER PARVO M-230 F-200
SAINT BERNARD LONG COAT M-240 F-250
SAINT BERNARD SHORT COAT M-125 F-130
SAMOYED ALL WHITE/BLK POINTS/ GOOD WEIGHT M-155 F-200
SCHIPPERKE M-130 F-140
SCHNOODLE POODLE/SCHNAUZER CROSS M-160 F-170
SCOTTISH TERRIER EARS UP TYPY M-245 F-255
SHAR-PEI ALL COLORS EXCEPT BLACK M-255 F-265
SHAR-PEI BLACK M-140 F-155
SHETLAND SHEEPDOG BLUE MERLE 5# & UNDER M-225 F-235
SHETLAND SHEEPDOG OTHER 5# & UNDER M-185 F-195
SHIBA-INU M-205 F-230
SHIH-TZU 4# & UNDER M-170 F-205
SIBERIAN HUSKY WHITE-BLUE EYES M-150 F-160
SIBERIAN HUSKY OTHER-BLUE EYES M-130 F-140
SIBERIAN HUSKY BROWN/SPLIT EYES M-90 F-95
SILKY TERRIER M-240 F-255
SKYE TERRIER EARS UP MARKET PRICE M-380 F-390
SMOOTH HAIR FOX TERRIER M-120 F-125
SOFT COATED WHEATEN M-285 F-290
STANDARD POODLE ALL COLORS EXCEPT BLACK M-220 F-230
STANDARD POODLE BLACK M-180 F-190
TIBTEN TERRIER MARKET PRICE OR M-200 F-205
TOY FOX TERRIER 3.5# & UNDER M-145 F-150
VIZSLA M-175 F-185
WEIMARANER 135
WELSH CORGI M-175 F-185
WELSH TERRIER M-385 F-395
WEST HIGHLAND TERRIER EARS UP M-230 F-240
WHIPPET MARKET PRICE OR 175
WIRED HAIRED FOX TERRIER M-175 F-180
YORKSHIRE TERRIER 1.7-2.2# OUTSTANDING M-425 F-475
YORKSHIRE TERRIER 2.3-2.5# TYPY M-405 F-430
YORKSHIRE TERRIER 2.6-2.7# TYPY M-325 F-365
YORKSHIRE TERRIER 2.8-3# TYPY M-300 F-355
OTHER RECONIGZED POOS LAH-POO,MAL-POO,SHI-POO,YOR-POO,BICH-POO M-145 F-150
According to her own suggested auction fee schedule English Bulldogs should
run around $300 plus not the $1,200 she is charging. Needless to say there's
an awful big difference between the two.
Who are these puppy millers that Dogcrazy aids in moving out surplus breeding
stock - she doesn't say. Although she does claim to have friends from the
Amish community.
As much as her rescue efforts raises eyebrows it's the "Dogcrazy" radical
extreme political beliefs that are even more frightening. Her views reflect a
total different viewpoint than those dedicated to preserving life with
contributions to the rescue community.
Dogcrazy explains her political views quite clearly when she states -
"I will also say I am not one of the AR fanatics who is against any kind of
breeding. So, I am sure this board is 100% for spaying and neutering
everything, I am not. I am for animal welfare and the proper care of the animal whether
it is kept as a pet or a breeding animal. you can learn more about the
difference between animal rights and animal welfare at www.naiaonline.org"
Not in favor of spay/neutering. Claims to be for proper care of the pet
whether it is kept as a pet or a breeding animal and yet her listing of animals on
Petfinders looks for like the victims of puppy mill neglect and abuse than
dogs who were treated with proper care and respect.
Anyone who doesn't support spay/neutering to reduce shelter overpopulation
definitely does not represent the rescue community. Petfinders needs to pull
this site otherwise what is to prevent other puppy millers from dispensing of
their "surplus breeding stock" with a Petfinders site of their own?
Just say "Nevermore" to Nevermore Farms.
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